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Any thoughts on the
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Author:  uela2 [ Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Any thoughts on the
I believe the Panerai PAM 215 (brushed steel w/croc strap) was a 300 limited edition, and I can hardly find any info/reviews.

(1) Please share your thoughts / opinion.

(2) Would you buy a used one without box/papers?

Regards,
UE
Author:  Baz1950 [ Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Any thoughts on the
It's always good to say hello on a first post, just to let us know who you are and so on ;)

The 215 is indeed a rare option but my first question would be why bother with something that has no box or papers, where did they go? The 215 is a low production item but has nothing specific about it to make it particularly desirable (imo) and 40mm Panerai’s are much harder to sell over 44/47mm models if the time ever comes.

So, no B&P = a big minus for me

40MM = another minus for me

Ignore the above if you keep it for ever :|
Author:  Alex1974 [ Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Any thoughts on the
Luminor Chrono without Box and Papers is already a negative point.

If you want to but this watch, get assure it's a real one and not a fake from China.
Ask for pictures (in good quality) and put those online here to have a look on it.

Otherwise go with the sales person to an Panerai boutique for clarification.

Cheers,
Alex
Author:  Dunus [ Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Any thoughts on the Watch
Just a query... is box and paper really so important to the reselling of watches in general? or it is only particular to Panerai? Assuming a watch is genuine but without box and paper, how much it will "devalue" compared with a similar watch with box and paper?

Pardon me if I ask silly questions...
Author:  Baz1950 [ Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Any thoughts on the
Missing B&P certainly devalues the watch by more than the value of the missing items ime. I would suggest at least 20% lower, possibly more. The question in my mind is why would anyone bin or dispose of a significant wooden box and the papers, which on their own require nil storage space anyway.

There is always another deal on the same watch, even Panerai SE's imo. What may seem like a good idea to buy 'cheap' will be a new problem for you at the time you attempt to sell it on.

I once had a modern 2005 Daytona but only with current/valid Rolex service papers and literally in mint condition. I could not sell it for anything like full value anywhere. Never again :(
Author:  paneraisource [ Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Any thoughts on the
I prefer not to buy without box and papers, but sometimes when the price is 20% lower, its not bad since when you resell it, you get 20% less and then there's no difference really. Some watches the papers are more important than others.. I would say that with most watches, 20% is a lot more than normal.. The average discount for box and papers is more of a fixed amount rather than a percentage from what I've noticed. More like $200-500... with watches like Rolex and Panerai that are copied more, it is more of a drop.
Author:  fullcourt [ Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Any thoughts on the
paneraisource wrote:
I prefer not to buy without box and papers, but sometimes when the price is 20% lower, its not bad since when you resell it, you get 20% less and then there's no difference really. Some watches the papers are more important than others.. I would say that with most watches, 20% is a lot more than normal.. The average discount for box and papers is more of a fixed amount rather than a percentage from what I've noticed. More like $200-500... with watches like Rolex and Panerai that are copied more, it is more of a drop.


my question is how do you lose or misplace a box and papers from a watch that costs $4k or more? i have every box and all papers from every watch i own, from my cheapest invicta to my most expensive pam. maybe i'm the exception to the rule, but somehow i don't think so.
Author:  Dunus [ Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Any thoughts on the
Baz1950 wrote:
Missing B&P certainly devalues the watch by more than the value of the missing items ime. I would suggest at least 20% lower, possibly more. The question in my mind is why would anyone bin or dispose of a significant wooden box and the papers, which on their own require nil storage space anyway.

There is always another deal on the same watch, even Panerai SE's imo. What may seem like a good idea to buy 'cheap' will be a new problem for you at the time you attempt to sell it on.

I once had a modern 2005 Daytona but only with current/valid Rolex service papers and literally in mint condition. I could not sell it for anything like full value anywhere. Never again :(


Thank you so much for the enlightenment... 20% is actually quite a lot... However, unless you are an expert in watches, a layman like me will not really know the market value of a watch.. I am thinking, whether there is any tabulation of benchmark values of panerai watches? Be it brand new or used (guess it is mainly for used Pam since new prices can be obtained from AD, silly me :))... It will be helpful for a newbie to use as a guide when searching for any particular model :)

Do you think is a good idea to buy used watches? I have no experience at all, and so I went to AD to get my first PAM, a 359 :) what would be a good model if I hope to get a second PAM but used?
Author:  Dunus [ Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Any thoughts on the
paneraisource wrote:
I prefer not to buy without box and papers, but sometimes when the price is 20% lower, its not bad since when you resell it, you get 20% less and then there's no difference really. Some watches the papers are more important than others.. I would say that with most watches, 20% is a lot more than normal.. The average discount for box and papers is more of a fixed amount rather than a percentage from what I've noticed. More like $200-500... with watches like Rolex and Panerai that are copied more, it is more of a drop.


Thank you for the advice. I will insist on having the B&P when looking for an used PAM next time :) hopefully the day will come soon... :)
Author:  fullcourt [ Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Any thoughts on the
Dunus wrote:
Baz1950 wrote:
Missing B&P certainly devalues the watch by more than the value of the missing items ime. I would suggest at least 20% lower, possibly more. The question in my mind is why would anyone bin or dispose of a significant wooden box and the papers, which on their own require nil storage space anyway.

There is always another deal on the same watch, even Panerai SE's imo. What may seem like a good idea to buy 'cheap' will be a new problem for you at the time you attempt to sell it on.

I once had a modern 2005 Daytona but only with current/valid Rolex service papers and literally in mint condition. I could not sell it for anything like full value anywhere. Never again :(


Thank you so much for the enlightenment... 20% is actually quite a lot... However, unless you are an expert in watches, a layman like me will not really know the market value of a watch.. I am thinking, whether there is any tabulation of benchmark values of panerai watches? Be it brand new or used (guess it is mainly for used Pam since new prices can be obtained from AD, silly me :))... It will be helpful for a newbie to use as a guide when searching for any particular model :)

Do you think is a good idea to buy used watches? I have no experience at all, and so I went to AD to get my first PAM, a 359 :) what would be a good model if I hope to get a second PAM but used?


plenty of 359's and 312's available on the secondary market, just do some searching.
Author:  paneraisource [ Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Any thoughts on the
fullcourt wrote:
paneraisource wrote:
I prefer not to buy without box and papers, but sometimes when the price is 20% lower, its not bad since when you resell it, you get 20% less and then there's no difference really. Some watches the papers are more important than others.. I would say that with most watches, 20% is a lot more than normal.. The average discount for box and papers is more of a fixed amount rather than a percentage from what I've noticed. More like $200-500... with watches like Rolex and Panerai that are copied more, it is more of a drop.


my question is how do you lose or misplace a box and papers from a watch that costs $4k or more? i have every box and all papers from every watch i own, from my cheapest invicta to my most expensive pam. maybe i'm the exception to the rule, but somehow i don't think so.


Not everyone is quite as careful with boxes as you and I.. I've found this to be true.. not everyone is like me, and they make decisions differently and have different priorities. Many people here in Canada go buy Panerai's in the carribean where there is no tax, and then leave the boxes over there and just wear the watch home to skip out on paying taxes.. some ask the dealers to mail the box to them, and often the dealers never bother. You're not the exception to the rule, you're the rule, and those that don't have the boxes are the exception.

Some people buy a lot of watches on the secondary market used, from people like the ones stated above. I've picked up a few, though it is rare. But sometimes the deal is too good to pass up and the seller is someone I trust.
Author:  Baz1950 [ Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Any thoughts on the
We box holder/keepers are i believe the norm. Even for the cheapest Panerai it makes a nicer set with it's B&P come sale time. So many times i've read no B&P doesn't matter, it's a keeper only to see that watch for sale some time later with a slightly disgruntled seller because there is no desire for anyone to buy it.

Vintage stuff aside, which i don't even get into myself, no B&P simply means no deal for me.
Author:  fullcourt [ Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Any thoughts on the
Baz1950 wrote:
We box holder/keepers are i believe the norm. Even for the cheapest Panerai it makes a nicer set with it's B&P come sale time. So many times i've read no B&P doesn't matter, it's a keeper only to see that watch for sale some time later with a slightly disgruntled seller because there is no desire for anyone to buy it.

Vintage stuff aside, which i don't even get into myself, no B&P simply means no deal for me.


baz, i tend to agree. i had the opportunity to purchase a pam w/o b & p and recently passed. although i'm sure the seller was 100%, i wasn't comfortable with it.

have a great week all.
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