The Panerai Source Forums

I did my research and read most of these posts but still confused by the way model numbers and differences. I've got some questions which to most of you would be very basic, but hey everyone is a beginner somewhere sometime:
1) As far as I understand the "poison" of Panerai watches (aside from its absolute stunning STYLE and BEAUTY (wouldn't expect anything less from Italians)), is the fact that every year they come up with a new model with minor modifications to the existing ones AND produce in limited quantities. Would that be a fair statement? If yes, then I would understand why i am confused between so many similar looking models with different model numbers.
2) The "J" designation: I saw watches with the same PAM Number but some has a "-J" attached to it. What's that mean? I liked a PAM90 and then I saw a PAM90-J and could not quite figure out the difference.
3) Polished vs. brushed: I like polished steel for both the bezel and the base. Yet I saw combinations like "polished bezel- brushed base" and "polished bezel - polished base". Question is Does a certain PAM# model come with a certain bezel-base combination or can a certain PAM# have any bezel-base combination?
Thanks for the help

OK - I'll try to clarify things 'Panerai' for you...

(But first of all welcome to the madness!!)

Panerai use a lettering system (since 1998) to designate the year in which the watch came out. 'A' corresponds to 1998 and we're now at the letter 'K' for 2008. Note that the watch 'year' begins in April.

As a general rule the numbers designate a particular watch (as you mentioned, for example, polished case, brushed bezel) and this designation follows the watch through it's life - if they launch the same model with a polished bezel, it will have a different model number. With me so far?

After the year designation is a series number - for example 126/500 - this indicates that the watch has a production run of 500 for that model year, and that the watch is the 126th example.

Different categories of watches are produced in different numbers - there were 3500 of the Luminor Marina PAM00111 in the 'J' series, for example, but only 700 of the PAM00176 Luminor Base for the same year.

It is entirely possible that you will not see a particular watch in a dealer as a 'K' series yet, as the production-to-sale times can exceed a whole year - patience!

If you look in the reference pages, you will see details of the differences between the Base, Marina etc. models - too many to go into here.

In addition to the regular production watches, there are a series of Special Editions produced each year. These are 'usually' a model with small modifications to the regular production model, but produced in very small numbers, and never repeated.

A good example of this is the PAM00253 Regatta Special Edition produced in 2006. This is essentially a PAM00212 regular production 1950 Flyback but with a Blue Chrono hand and a Paris Hobnail dial. It was produced in a limited edition of 500 units. The 212 however has been produced since 2005 with 800 or 900 models per year. The 253 was produced for the Panerai sponsored Classic Yachts Challenge - this year (2008) the Regatta model is the PAM00308.

Ian

_________________
Own: 219, 253, 270, 308
On order: 28 Selling: 164 OOR
Past loves: 000,176,199,240,250,251,252,288

You are right. It is MADNESS!! and I want them all!
Thanks for this explanation. It was really helpful. I work for an investment bank so I have to wear suits and visit clients all the time. I need something that looks more dressy, so polished is better, less clutter is better, etc. I tried to look at as many photos as I can and I went back and forth btw 90 and 104, but I think I am leaning towards 104. The base model (112) is also soooo tempting with the see-thru back, but I want to have a date on my watch! I haven't seen one but do you think there is a 44mm Luminor, black dial, polished bezel and base, with date and see-thru back? Or am I being too anal?

Sadly the simple answer is no - at least, not in the current production models.

As a rule of thumb, the current models can be identified as follows:

Base - manual - no seconds - no date - exhibition back (except the LOGO models)

Marina - manual - small seconds - no date - exhibition back (except the LOGO models)

Marina Automatic - auto (!) - small seconds, date - solid case back

This obviously doesn't exclude the fact that earlier models (and/or SE) were made with 'subtle' differences - ie; an exhibition back here, a date there...

Generally, to get a date, the watch must be an auto movement - but this isn't a hard and fast rule either! That's what makes it so interesting/frustrating...

I have a PAM00253 Regatta and whilst I love it to bits, it hasn't got a date - despite the fact that I have a date on my computer, my portable telephone etc. I feel more comfortable when I have it on my watch too.

To complicate matters even more, my current 'love' has a whoping 10 day power reserve and it's an automatic movement!! Talk about confusing...

_________________
Own: 219, 253, 270, 308
On order: 28 Selling: 164 OOR
Past loves: 000,176,199,240,250,251,252,288

Got it. Thanks again. Lemme start with 104 then. I am sure I'll be back!

The 104 is not only a good start, but a great watch IMHO. It's around the 5100$US (4000€) mark as far as I can tell.

_________________
Own: 219, 253, 270, 308
On order: 28 Selling: 164 OOR
Past loves: 000,176,199,240,250,251,252,288

That sounds like a good price. I live in Tokyo and travel to New York a lot. Can you recommend me some places where I can find a 104 around that price range?

and the info here was very helpful in straightening out my mind about "things Panerai".

Thanks. And by the way, I also live in Tokyo.

I think 104s even in the US go for much higher than $5,100, at least new from what I have seen checking online. I think the prices are somewhat comparable to what new ones go for here. For $5,100 you'd have to buy used from a direct seller or from an auction site. In that case, I suggest you might want to look in Tokyo for used. But I'm not sure if that would interest you.

I have bought all my watches here (14, including 2 Pams) used and have found super watches at great prices by looking hard and long enough. I place a lot of trust in the dealers in this country, so buying used here doesn't bother me, since the watches on the most part are in great condition to boot. Anyway, just in case you're intersted, I thought I'd add my 2 cents.

Anyway, good luck in your search and the 104 is a great one.

Ron- Thanks for the tips. Where do you shop for used watches? I am relatively new to Tokyo and new to the hi-end watch world. I visited some shops in Ginza, knowing the prices will be sky-high and they were way over the prices you would see on the on-line stores. I agree with you that Japan can be the safest place for buying used items, so I am ok with that but I wouldn't know where to begin. Appreciate if you could point me in the right direction. Thanks. Ahmet

There are quite a few stores in Shinjuku and 3 in Nakano, for starts. I have had better luck with these than the Ginza stores. I hardly go to Ginza for that reason. It's probably not OK by the rules here to gives the store names. If you read Japanese, there are many stores listed in watch magazines and on the net, just etner PAM00104 in Google and you'll get a lot of hits. Good luck in what you decide on.